Upcycling for Health: Transforming Produce Trimmings Into Nutritional Gold

No, thank you for having me.

How are you? It's so good to see you as always.

It's so good to see you, so excited to be here.

Me too. I mean, this is always fun for me because I get to, I'm talking to a friend how lucky I am to be on the other side of the camera and chatting with a friend who I respect, doing such innovative things, and who I get to work with when we do our Table Talk. I feel very, very, very lucky.

Thank you for having me. Glasses of wine, we can have. Justine Reichman: I know. I feel like it is that time in New York, not here, it's a little early here. But I do have my water and I bought these new ice cubes that are quite big, and I put flowers on them.

Oh, fancy. I love that.

And it's just for myself, it's not even for guests, guests over right now. What was the last time you had a guest? Aside from Justine who wanted to know. So for those of you who have not participated in Table Talk, or one of those talks that Sara and I have done, Sarah and I are friends. And not only is she a fashion stylist and launched a business called SPUNJ Sustainability, we also do a talk called Table Talk, where we talked about the intersection of food and fashion, and the impact food is having on fashion and so many other industries. I'm excited to have Sarah share with you a little bit about her story, and then we'll get into some of the different ways food is impacting fashion and hear more about what sustainability is doing, and how she was inspired to build that business. So Sarah, share with us, tell everybody some of the stuff I know, but share a little bit about your story and how you went from being a fashion designer of stylist partway to building SPUNJ Sustainability?

So yeah, for the past 20 years, 20 plus years, I have been working as a fashion stylist in New York City, doing photo shoots, and commercials, and styling people for events. And with the rise of shopping online, and it used to be like we'd go to a store and you would pull things in person, and then you bring it home a shopping bag. But with the rise, with the internet and shopping online, everything started arriving in packages, like boxes and everything is wrapped in plastic. So with every job I did, I mean, some jobs that they do in shopping for like 20 or 30 people. And unpacking all of it, everything, I would have mountains and mountains, and bags and bags full of plastic that I was just basically throwing in the garbage. It was not going to be recycled, it was not gonna be repurposed. And just after years of doing that, I just started to get so disgusted, I was like I am part of the problem. I am not being part of the solution by creating all this waste. So a friend invited me to a talk, it was about how to use your money to affect climate solutions. And basically it was just saying that all of us, as the consumer, have a right to use our dollars in a way to make change, to make the change that we want to see. So eye opening for me was really like a game changer. I realised that I'm already advising people, companies and brands on how to invest their dollars, what to buy, what to wear. I was like, I can be the agent for change by recommending sustainable brands

You did for change.

Yeah. So hence, SPUNJ Sustainability was born, it really came into my mind about a little over a year ago. I built the website and we've been doing tons of research, just educating myself on sustainability and all that it means. And finding brands that are not only sustainable, in terms of how they treat people on the planet, but also brands that are beautiful, right? They make beautiful things that I want to buy, and that I would feel comfortable recommending to other people. So yeah, so that's what SPUNJ, and that's kind of my story for the past, like a year and a half.

It's always great to hear what's inspired somebody to be able to build their next project, or their next builder, next endeavour. It's from experiences, from passion, and it sounds like this, your passion was fashion, but your passion was also solving this problem.

Yes. It's basically, I mean, I realised when doing all the research how much time it really takes to figure out if a brand is sustainable. You've done a talk about this greenwashing out there and brands that say, oh, we're sustainable. But then they don't say anything about their practices in terms of what kind of material do they use? Where are they manufacturing? Are they manufacturing in a safe way? Are they paying their employees properly? So it takes so much time. So I just figured like, this is the service that I'm going to be giving to everyone. Like, you can just go to a one stop shop of places to find whatever it is that you're looking for and know that the brands that you're buying from are safe, they're healthy and are doing something to improve the planet. And I feel like, yeah.

Why not? That's the best solution. Mindful of the individuals, keeps in mind the wellness of the planet, and it's thoughtful. I mean, up until now, I don't know that we really, in our heads, I don't think we thought about the planet as people are creating packaging. I think it's only now since we're seeing the impact of it on the environment, that people have really become more thoughtful about it. Because look at all the packaging we have, people were never talking about this 25 years ago, this wasn't a thing. Remember when Al Gore made that movie?

Yeah.

People are like, that doesn't exist. It's not a thing. Global warming, what's that?

And now here we are. California and Oregon are on fire.

Well, I'm in California. You can't even see the mountains outside my house, there's so much smoke. It's so unhealthy. But I'd love to, before we get too deep into it, just for our listeners, maybe hear from you, what does sustainability mean? Because everybody's talking about it and people are claiming it, but I'm not sure that the majority of people actually know what it means. What does it mean to be sustainable to you Sarah?

To me, anyway, I look for brands, how I evaluate brands and put them on the site is, are they doing something good for people? Are they doing something good for the planet? And then also for animals? Because they're also part of our ecosystem, so it's putting people, planet and animals on par, if not even on the step above your profit. Because of course, it's important to be profitable. But we have to start thinking about not just what we're taking, but what we're giving back. In terms of people, are you fair trade, fair trade meaning, are you treating your employees fairly? Wage, health care, safety, empowerment. If someone in your workforce has a grievance, are they able to go to management and say something about retribution? I mean, a lot of these things are things we might take for granted in the US or in Europe, but third world countries where this isn't really not always the case. I have been reading articles recently about factories in LA where people are not paid fair wages and there is a lot of retribution when people try to organise or express concerns about safety. This happens really everywhere, so that's people. And then planet, what are the materials that you're using to make your product? Like the food industry, for the past 20 some years, organic products have been becoming so popular and prevalent. And organic used to be like, organic? Oh, it's so expensive. It's hard to find. Now it's everywhere. I will buy a carton of milk unless it's organic.

I only buy organic.

And hopefully, free range.

Grass fed.

Grass fed, exactly.

Even with grass fed, around here, what I've learned is that, I don't know if you know this, but if you get all grass fed, or finishing grass fed, then there's some corn and grass fed. But eating all grass fed means, from what I understand, that when there is no green grass, they starve. Right now, that does not seem humane to me. To me, I feel like a supplement. And there is another word when they do supplement. When they supplement with hay or whatever these other nutrients are that they have when there is no grass, because we don't have grass all year long. We have two seasons, as Tim likes to tell me, green and brown. So right now I think we're in the brown season, which is why we have so many fires in season. And it was orange last week, did I send you that photo? That was crazy. 9:30 in the morning, I went out. My headlights were on and it looked like it was 4:00 in the morning, like, 3:00 in the morning where you can kind of see it coming up [inaudible]. So I appreciate you sharing that with us, about sustainability and your point of view. Because even you, me, Justine, we've all had these conversations, when we've had our talks about what sustainability means, because people throw it around, oh, I'm sustainable. But I think to ask them those questions, the way that you illustrate, it really can make us as consumers that understand what it is we're looking to know, and what we are asking so that we can make informed choices, and determine if that's something you want to support. Because after all, we are supporting that with our dollar. And our dollars, the best way to make a difference in that, as you were saying, right? So can we talk a little bit about the intersection of food and fashion? I mean, we've done this already, but for our listeners today, I think it's a fun conversation. And it really is inspiring the future of fashion. And I'd love to just hear from you your thoughts on it? And how do you think things are changing with these new designs and designers and products?

Absolutely. I think the newest trends in sustainability in terms of fashion is going back to the source of where your material comes from and being involved in the process of growing it. And in that, like the food, it's regenerative farming. A farming method that is those away from mono-crops and GMOs, and it's more about small crops grown in a natural way. The way the farming used to be, 100 years ago or 675 years ago, it basically just means that there's less water waste, less chemicals, less pesticides. And it's really just a natural way of planting things so there's like a natural balance of, there are certain plants that you can, plants that you can plant. So there's like, the main plants might be like cotton, you know, in order to get rid of the pests. And insects, you can plant like a secondary crop, which acts like a natural insecticide. You don't have to use chemicals, but it repels the flies,or whatever it is attacking the primary problem, cotton. So it's just like natural ways, it's like an all natural way of doing things, which just makes so much sense.

And I think it's great. I mean, to be able to create fashion, be regenerative, use natural products. It seems like, why haven't we done this before? Well, what took us so long to get here? I mean, any future trends that are based on this.

I mean, I'm just hoping that more and more brands start realising, I think more and more brands are using organic cotton, organic materials. And technology has given us ways of using recycled fibres, even if it's not an all natural fiber like wool, or cotton, or silk, it's recycling polyester, which is something that more brands are using, especially in the athletic world. There's also other fabrics like tencel and modal, which where you basically take wood pulp, and you mix it with chemicals and water, and then it creates a semi synthetic material. The good thing is, even though you're using chemicals, the chemicals are in a closed loop system so they're not just using that chemical once and then dumping it in the groundwater, it's going to be reprocessed and reused over and over again, which is good.

Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, it's just like a lot more options now which are awesome. And I'm just hoping that brands become more and more aware of them and are able to incorporate them into the lines. I see it happening slowly, not fast enough--

Learning curve for the browns, do you think it's a supply chain, a cost issue?

I think it's probably all of the above. It definitely takes time to educate yourself, to find the right supplier, retooling whatever it is that you're making, because if you're used to working with a straight polyester, recycled polyester, it might have a different feel, it might have a different weight so you might have to adjust your designs in order to accommodate that. So it's definitely a process. You can't just flip a switch and have it all happen overnight, for sure. But I definitely applaud the brands that are taking the time to do it because it's definitely an investment in the long term.

Yeah, I think so. What is the most interesting food inspired brand you've seen or heard about?

Well, right now, on SPUNJ, we have bag brands, piper and skye. They are handmade artisanal bags that are made in New York City, but they're made from a byproduct. They're made out of fish skin called pirarucu., I'm probably not saying that, pirarucu. So basically, it's an amazing system. So for our choice a fish skin that lives in the Amazon River, and a lot of the indigenous tribes that live along the Amazon River hunt for this fish because it's an important food source for them. So what used to happen was, the fish became really over fished, and their population dwindled. But the governments and NGOs stepped in and created rules and regulations, and visited fisheries to protect the pirarucu population. So the population revitalised, it jumped from like, I think it was jumping to 2500 at one point, and now it's up to over 200 and some thousand. Now, they not only have enough fish to eat and sustain themselves, but now they take the fish skins. And there's a whole market that has been created to sell the fish skins to an international market and create products out of it.

Wow.

I know, it's incredible. It's really a fully sustainable system, which is amazing. So with less waste, and the purge his skin is stronger than cowhide, which is amazing. It has this beautiful texture to it so it looks like, if you amplify the snake skin like 1000 times, because that has come of this diamond pattern to it, it's really beautiful, super durable. It's amazing.

Talk with them, for our listeners that are curious to learn more about that, we'll be having a Table Talk that you'll be able to catch. Because by the time this airs, it will have gone, and come and gone. But you will be able to check it out at the NextGenChef website on the app under Table Talk. We'll put it in the show notes all the details about the company as well so everybody can check it out. I know I'm eager, go check it out. We'll put the SPUNJ details on so somebody can go check out Sarah's products. But that's a great one. I remember when we had a talk a while ago, when we had the people from Taylor + Thomas on and they were talking about using the grape skins. That was super interesting to me, I had never heard of that before.

Yeah. I've come across it in my research. I mean, there's so many food byproducts now that are being turned into wearable, like leathers and materials. People use soy, people use hemp, people use grape skins, mango skins--

They will make even mango skins, do you know?

I'm sorry, not mango, pineapple. That's what it is.

What were they doing with those? Shoes?

Anything, they turn it into leather. You can make shoes, jackets, bags.

Cool.

Yeah, it's called Mango Materials, it's the company.

But it's the outside of a pineapple.

Yeah. And pineapple leaves, it's amazing. Grapes, I think H&M had a line of shoes made out of grape skin waste, from the wine industry. It's like all those great things that get thrown out when you make wine, they're making fabric out of it. Leather, basically. It's incredible.

I'm curious to know what the impact is? As we make more changes that the fashion industry and all these other industries make changes, what kind of impact will have on the planet?

Anything that reduces waste, right? I mean, so much waste is created. And anything that can get us away from using plastic, anything polyester, anything that can get us into using natural biodegradable materials, especially ones that are already a waste product that are going to be thrown out that we can take and create into something usable and wearable is a game changer. It's amazing.

Yeah, I agree. So tell us about some of the products you have on SPUNJ. This one's inspired by food. I know they're not all inspired by food, but whether it's plants, food or something like that.

I mean, we really try to look at brands that are using all natural materials. We have toy companies that are making toys out of wood. We have a crayon out of all natural materials like natural wax and no chemical additives that are super safe for kids, and they are so beautifully designed. What else do we have? We have products for the home, we have public goods, which is a brand that has all essential home products like cleaning, bath supplies, soaps, conditioners, you name it. They have so many different products, and all of their products are made using less chemicals. They're in refillable bottles so it's, again, creating less waste because you can just get the refillable package and refill the bottles that you have. Even some of their bottles are made out of recycled plastic, which is amazing. We have an Scandic Botanica, which is a beauty line that is made by my friend [inaudible], who is half Swedish. Her line is inspired by Scandinavia. That country has a long tradition of using all natural beauty products, and she's taken all that knowledge that she's gained from her mother and her grandmother over the years and created her own line with it. She has some amazing products, tonics, face masks and lip treatments.

As part of the process when you're deciding if they're sustainable and they fit your idea of what a good sustainable healthy product is, is trying it part of the process? Is that part of the process?

Yes, it is.

You need a whole team of independent people that can give you feedback.

I know.

I'm just thinking, that's what I would want. A little bit selfish.

A part of our model has been to cut down on holding inventory because it creates another level of shipping. So as a multi brand retailer, you would have to have everything shipped to us, and then we would have to ship to the customer. So part of cutting down on like carbon emissions is just eliminating one level of shipping and just shipping directly from the brands to the customer--

Is that what you're doing?

That's what we've been doing. But that said, I think coming up soon, maybe closer to Christmas we're gonna start doing some pop-up shops.

Oh, that's great.

--for SPUNJ Sustainability pop-up shops. So we're going to start carrying that inventory so we can have stuff to sell in the shops.

That's exciting. Okay, love that. Will have to talk about maybe getting some NextGenChef certified products in there.

That would be amazing.

And we're going to have gift boxes, too.

Yes.

So the gift boxes with the tailored products and some of them might be CBD infused, some of them might be CPG products, some might be shelf stable, so that will be a fun collaboration to continue that conversation.

Let's do it.

Definitely. I love everything that you're doing, the impact to me just sounds like it's so vast. People really have an opportunity here to be part of that impact with their dollars, with their choices. And I think it's really important to understand that and share that with people so that they can really understand, not just hear from us, not just say hey, listen, do this because it's good for the environment. But do this because you know what? Maybe the planet will survive a few more years. Maybe there'll be less waste and therefore we'll have less pollution. There's a variety of things. Are there any things that really are important to you that make these choices, or that inspire the choices to be more sustainable?

One thing I feel like that we're doing is that I felt that it was a barrier for a lot of people to find sustainable, buying sustainably that they feel like they have to sacrifice on something. They either have to sacrifice on design, or convenience, or, it's gonna be like a subpar product, or it's more expensive. The point is you really don't, you really don't have to sacrifice anything. I mean, we're trying to make it accessible and convenient, and there are so many amazing brands out there making incredibly beautiful products. I feel like, I'm hoping that the days of fast fashion are soon to end, or hopefully slowly on their way out. And that people start realising that buying less things of better quality, investing pieces that you're going to have for a lifetime, hopefully, is really the way to go. You'll spend less money in the long term buying products that last, and just keep buying new things over and over that land at once, that you [inaudible] falling apart.

It's true. I would agree with that. I've always been that way. Not necessarily because I was trying to be sustainable, but because I always thought it just made sense. But then you have the thoughts of fashion and trend settings. Of course, I'm not a teenager or my 20's anymore where every season you get a whole new wardrobe. You're a little girl, you went to school, you grew out of it, the fashions are different, you always had to stay up with the latest things. But as we get older, we learn about timeless pieces and having that. I think that bringing that back and creating a fashion around that pieces that are not necessarily going to go to style, but they can all be chic, and timeless, beautiful, and yet sustainable. Maybe a change in the way people are thinking, but I would want to inspire that.

It already actually is a trend in the fashion industry a couple months ago, the creative director of Gucci posted a bunch of things on Instagram about doing exactly that. Like making less collections, why do we have to have 100 pieces in each collection. And they're showing five times a year, you'd have spring, summer, fall, winter. Now it's like this resort, there's pre fall, there's, you know, men's, women's, there's so many different shows and collections happening. A lot of designers are on that same thought like, Geez, I know. I think probably like 20 other high fashion designers also wrote a letter saying that, we need to have less fashion shows, less collections, fewer pieces in the collection and just make it more sustainable. The whole industry has just been spiralling out of control for the past, I don't know how many years, and it's not sustainable for the designers, either. They're all burnt out and exhausted. And Instagram, everyone wants to see something new, something fast, it's just gotten crazy. It's already happening, the trend is already starting. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Fashion Week is coming this week, the shows will be interesting to see, like how many pieces they're actually making. So it's an exciting time.

I think that will be exciting. I think it'll also be exciting to see what kind of innovations people can create with what kinds of byproducts, whether it's from food or something else, whether it's raw, using what is it? Bottle caps, plastic or something, or somebody else using something else. Because I think that there's so many different things that up until now have just been garbage. I hate to say that, but they're not recyclable, they're not useful a second time. But to be able to find a use for them and then turn them into some sort of fashion is thoughtful and it's inspiring. It's a better way to think about building the future of fashion.

Absolutely. It's a whole burgeoning market.

I can't wait to see, I can't wait to see new brands that are coming out, and some of the innovations that they're coming up with, and what's inspired them. I know that you deal with a lot of different products, but how impactful do you think food has been in the future of fashion?

I think they were really just following the footsteps of the food industry. Fashion is, we were saying before the need to have, people started having all these health problems like high blood pressure, obesity. All these things have been plaguing our health system and people for so long, and it was only when people started looking at the food industry. McDonald's is really like the food equivalent of H&M and Zara, or fast food, fast fashion.

Just one of the fads we'd like to get rid of?

It is. Not that I don't love to go in there sometimes and buy something, but you know? What I do support it is that H&M and Zara do have their conscious collections, and they're joined like collections. I think Zara or H&M is like one of the biggest buyers of organic cotton in the world, just because of the sheer volume that they do. That said, they have a long way to go to be truly sustainable, but they are taking--

It's an effort. It's an effort, and you gotta start somewhere so I applaud them for that.

I applaud them for that too. And if you are going to buy something from them, just buy from those collections, it's so affordable. I'd rather have it be 50% organic than zero percent organic. Cotton, or zero, 50%, 20% recycled rather than zero percent recycled.

I also think the other thing is, I think we can all be victims to this to fashion trends. You're going to a party, you have a date, whatever it is, you want to wear something fun and cute so we go out and get a new outfit. H&M, Oh, my God, what was the last one you just said?

Zara.

Zara, I'm sorry. You don't make it a lot more accessible and affordable for people to buy those cooler things at a lower price point.

Yeah.

So they have a place, and so I appreciate their efforts and what they're doing because they make fashion affordable and accessible. And now, they are making an effort. It's not perfect, but none of us are all perfect. We got to pick away, stay at it, manage that, do that well and then try to include more things.

But you know what? I do think that, as Americans, we have so much. Like, over abundance of things. I spent the weekend watching that show on Netflix that Reese Witherspoon just produced about those women who like organise on the home edit. It shocked me, like going into these people's homes, it's overflowing with stuff. It's like, if I looked at my closet, I really don't need to buy anything new for the next 10 years. So maybe it's just like going into your closet and you could suggest you haven't worn in five years or 10 years, or it was like, your grandmother's piece that you've had, like a hand me down or whatever--

Things around, like maybe wearing that jacket with a different pair of pants, even though it's part of a suit, rejiggering it.

Yeah. It's good to invite a friend over, trying a bunch of stuff and then just like maybe cut the sleeves off of something, it becomes something new.

I feel FaceTime is happening. We're gonna do an edit, we're gonna do a closet edit.

I would be into that. And it also makes me think of the brand we're launching on SPUNJ tomorrow called [inaudible]. She's gonna be on our talk show on Wednesday. She's just an amazing lady from St. Louis, Missouri. Her whole business is taking vintage pieces and reimagining them, repurposing them into these fabulous things. Like, they're amazing. I'm gonna be wearing one of her dresses. I'm gonna wear one of her dresses on wednesday.

--How do I wear a dress?

I'm gonna get it to you in California in time, but you'll die when you see it.

I'm not a model, I'm not a fit size, either.

Oh, you would fit, you would fit. It comes in all different sizes.

So you can make it happen, just make sure it arrives in time, it's only Monday. I can't wait, I'm super excited. We have so many fun things coming up on Table Talk, and bringing you on to Essential Ingredients as one of our founding interviews is exciting for me because it allows us to expand the network that NextGenChef has bringing on to this podcast, continue the conversation about all the essential ingredients that go into building brands, from soil to shell, from soil to rack, all of it.

Soil to rack? I love it.

I'm gonna, what do you call? Trademark, that one. So for those of you listening, maybe Sarah, you could just tell people how people would find SPUNJ so if they want to check out the website and access some of these products, they would go there.

So the website is SPUNJ which is named after the sea sponge, which is an important little creature in the ocean that filters out the ocean. And basically what we do is we sift through all these products and give you what is essential and important. So it's S-P-U-N-J.C-O, that's the site, spunj.co. Yeah, please come check us out. Justine, thank you so much for having me, it's such a pleasure.

Before we leave, just share one pandemic recipe that maybe you've inspired or created while you're home with your family.

You know I'm not a big chef, but I have been making--

You're surrounded by chefs all the time, and people in the food. Anything comes to mind?

I've been making a lot of sushi, that's what I've been doing.

I love that. So you slice the fish, sashimi or sushi?

I mean, the only thing you really have to cook is the rice, which is perfect.

You're actually making sushi. I was gonna say she's making sashimi.

I can even eliminate the rice--

I like that. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Sarah, for joining us on Essential Ingredients. I love learning more about SPUNJ, I'm so excited to continue our Table Talk, and thank you to all our listeners for joining us today.

Thank you so much for having me.

Oh, my pleasure.