S9 Ep82: Build CPG Faster— Stop CPG Product Chaos With One AI-Powered System with Karen Huh
“The value you get out of Zucca and all the things it can do is far cheaper than what it would take to hire another person or hire an external consultant to do that work.” —Karen Huh
Building a CPG product should not feel like juggling spreadsheets at midnight. Teams lose time, money, and clarity when formulas, costs, and decisions are scattered across multiple locations. This conversation confronts that reality head-on and addresses why speed and focus are crucial in the food, beverage, and supplement industries right now.
Karen Huh shares how two decades in CPG at companies shaped her view of broken product development workflows. That experience led her to build Zucca, an AI-powered operating system designed to unify how CPG teams ideate, formulate, cost, and scale products.
Listen to hear how modern CPG teams are using AI to work smarter and move faster.
Building an AI-powered operating system for CPG product development
Why product launches break down as brands grow
How AI supports formulation, costing, and iteration
Reducing time to scale-ready formulas
Collaboration and single source of truth for CPG teams
Using AI as a teammate, not a replacement
What founders misunderstand about AI and speed
The future of AI in food and beverage innovation
Connect with Karen:
Karen Huh is the co-founder and CEO of Zucca, an innovative operating system for product development in the consumer packaged goods (CPG) industry, powered by AI. With over 20 years of experience, Karen has held leadership roles at Starbucks and numerous venture-backed brands, building a strong track record in product innovation and business development. Drawing on her in-depth knowledge of CPG workflows, she is dedicated to streamlining and unifying product development processes through advanced technology. Karen leads a diverse, expert-driven team at Zucca, helping brands of all sizes create, manage, and scale products more efficiently.
Episode Highlights:
02:12 What Inspired Zucca
05:32 Early Exposure to AI
11:24 Challenges and Surprises in AI Development
16:30 Zucca’s Unique Features and Benefits
19:02 User Experience and Implementation
24:59 Impact on CPG Companies
28:12 Customer Success Stories
30:47 Accessibility and Pricing
Tweets:
Great products don’t fail—broken workflows do. From ideation to scale-up, this conversation unpacks how founders use AI as a teammate to cut time, cost, and confusion. Tune in to hear how teams move faster without losing quality with @justine.reichman and Zucca co-founder, Karen Huh. #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #ZuccaAI #CPGbrands #ProductDevelopment #FoodTech #StartupTools #FoodInnovation #AIPowered #BrandBuilding
Inspirational Quotes:
04:25 “AI is so wonderful at integrating and connecting the dots with disparate pieces of information and data. So, no perfect time than now to offer this as a solution for folks.” —Karen Huh
08:38 “There's a whole runway on to understanding all the things you can do that we've never considered.” —Justine Reichman
10:08 “Every founder should say, you can't know it all… I really need to look to my team to provide that knowledge.” —Karen Huh
12:10 “AI is better served as a human plus adjunct, but you can't do all the things for you with the level of excellence that you require and want.” —Karen Huh
25:44 “It feels very much that AI is so pervasive, and it is, but it's also going to change… So we will use the advancements of AI to improve ourselves at the same time.” —Karen Huh
31:53 “The value you get out of Zucca and all the things it can do is far cheaper than what it would take to hire another person or hire an external consultant to do that work.” —Karen Huh
Transcription:
Justine Reichman: Welcome, Karen. We're so pleased to have you here today on the Essential Ingredients Podcast. Karen is the founder and CEO of Zucca, and it is an operating system for people building CPG brands. There's so much to talk about here. I'm so excited. This is a really innovative space connecting AI and food, and how to build this in a better and more efficient way, so I'm so excited. Tell us a little bit about Zucca. To those that are tuned in today, the listeners, the viewers, those that are not familiar with Zucca, can just get a high level understanding, and then we'll dig in a little bit deeper.
Karen Huh: First of all, thank you so much for having me here. Really excited to chat with you, and tell you more about myself and Zucca. So as you mentioned, Zucca is an operating system for CPG product development, and it's powered by AI. And that is a key differentiator versus other systems. And I think the next natural question might be, well, what on earth does that mean? What Zucca offers is to simplify and unify all the workflows that it takes to build any consumer packaged goods. So if you think of something relatively simple, coffee in a can, a protein bar, anything that you see in your grocery store, there's so much that goes into coming up with a concept, building the formula, tasting that formula, tasting that many recipes of that formula, nailing it down, figuring out the cost, and then getting out the door. To summarize at a very high level, well, all those steps, just the few steps I mentioned, involve so many different people with different functions and different types of information. And it doesn't take long for you to get lost in that information, and we seek to unify it.
Justine Reichman: And this seems such a great resource for people, because I think I've spoken to so many founders that it's their first time at the rodeo. And whether it's their first time or not, I think that you know that you could get lost. Everything could get lost. You could miss a step. So I'm curious, tell me a little bit about your background, and why you were inspired to build Zucca?
Karen Huh: There's no secret. I do have a CPG background. I was at Starbucks for 11 years, so I have been around coffee a lot. And then after that, I went into a private equity backed brand called Bulletproof, and then have worked with a number of VC backed brands after that. One thing that's the common through line of my entire career, for the last 20 years, is that I've been conceiving of product ideas, building product ideas, and launching them. Sometimes successfully, sometimes not. But suffice to say, I've been through the rigors of that process at a very large company, Starbucks. And the smallest of companies when you're just a few people, and the workflows get bigger and more complicated with scale, but there are a lot of commonalities as well. And so that was part of the inspiration for building Zucca is bringing all that experience I had, knowing that I love building and launching products. but also knowing it's the analogy I use, which may resonate with some people or not, is that project managing and figuring out all the things you need to get done to launch a product, it's kind of like a massive wedding.
“AI is so wonderful at integrating and connecting the dots with disparate pieces of information and data. So, no perfect time than now to offer this as a solution for folks.” —Karen Huh
That is the kind of thing where you wake up in the middle of night and you say, oh, God, did I do this? Or did I do that? Did I forget to ask this person this thing? Did I forget to send the retailer that file? All those things. And I've been there so many times even in the smoothest of products in the product development cycles. And so that was a huge inspiration for Zucca is to make that easier, smarter, less of a mental lift, maybe create fewer panic attacks. And the thing that's beautiful about AI in particular, which makes this more possible than before, is that AI is so wonderful at integrating and connecting the dots with disparate pieces of information and data. So no better time, you have to be really living under a rock at this point to not hear about AI at all. No perfect time than now to offer this as a solution for folks.
Justine Reichman: Yeah. I totally agree. And I've started so many different businesses. I have so many ideas like you. I think there's a group of us, it's in our DNA. We're just always thinking of new things. And sometimes, they work. And sometimes, they don't. That's just the way it is as a founder. But I think it's consistent through your career that you've been in CPG, and you've been able to see the needs and the challenges that you faced, and then created something that you thought would solve that problem. And its uniqueness. Meaning, the integration of the AI, I think that takes it to another level. So before you got into Zucca, you're working whether it was at the VC firm, or Starbucks, or Bulletproof, etcetera. How much did you know about AI? And how to integrate it with any of your ideas?
Karen Huh: That's a great question. So if I have my dates right, Chat GPT became public, I think, late 2022. I'll tell you a little story, and that'll answer your question. I heard about Chat GPT for the first time at a New Year's Eve party that year, and someone was asking it and asking questions. And then we were reading back the answers at this party, and it was wild. I don't think it's necessarily a podcast appropriate for me to share what those things were, but it was wild nonetheless. And that was my first time being born into AI. And so to more directly answer your question, I've been an early user of AI, experimenting with it, but certainly no love, nowhere close to the level of depth of knowledge that I have now since I think it's important for me to understand a lot more about AI, the ups and downs and all the other things, running a generative AI business, but it was a slow ramp of me playing with Chat GPT. My husband bought a paid account, or subscribed to a paid subscription, and us doing things like home improvement, planning a trip, uploading photos and editing them, and things like that for us to really play with it. So my initial exposure almost had nothing to do with work because I learned about it at a party. And then from there, prior to that I started using it for research in a way that I would have used Google, and I would push the limits of what I could ask, and that started the on ramp of me getting more comfortable with it. But I think maybe listeners are wondering how deeply steeped I am to be completely blunt. I'm not an engineer. Like I said, I'm a CPG person. So I was building physical goods, not building out a large language model that is now AI. And so my understanding of it comes from a place of being a user and a customer, and a benefactor more than anything else.
Justine Reichman: And so with that, you went into it using it for research. You went into it out of curiosity and see how far you can use it, and how tailored it could be for your different things that you want to plan, whether travel or etcetera. So now you're thinking about, okay, so how do I leverage this to create this, to solve this problem? So if you're thinking about that, you're obviously bringing in team members that are engineers and that do know how to build something more. So can you walk us through that a little? Because that's really not the skill set of, it's not my skill set, it's not your skill set, even if we play with CPG. What was it like to go find somebody and then connect with them, and figure out the nuances and how it works? How could you push those buttons? How did you figure out how you wanted to build that for your business? Because I'm sure there was a learning curve. There's a whole runway on to understanding all the things you could do that we've never considered building our travel plans.
Karen Huh: 100%. What I would say is that I'm still learning, and you really could drink from the fire hydrant when it comes to AI. If anyone follows AI with any proximity, knows there's news every day, you can really get whipped around with the news that comes out every day. And I also should mention that this is very early. We're in the early days of AI, and so a lot of people are figuring things out for the first time. There's a lot of conjecture out there. But as far as I am concerned, it really takes a team to understand how to build with AI. And so for that, that means my co-founder, Jesse, and also my engineering team, and also my investor, one of my two primary investors. Zucca is a business that spun out of a VC firm called Pioneer Square Labs here in Seattle, and they are a technology venture capital firm. And so they lend so much knowledge, foundational knowledge, and they're tracking what's happening as it relates to what it takes to build a technology business, and also what it takes to build an AI technology business, because those things aren't actually totally the same. I think every founder should say, you can't know it all. And so to learn more about what I should be looking for, all the benefits and constraints, and what it means to build a product, I really need to look to my team to provide that knowledge. And it also means hearing, hey, Karen, we can't do that right now. Oh, Karen, that takes a lot longer than you think. Karen, that's actually really easy. Let's do that. And so there's a lot of learning in that regard, and it's actually daily. I want to tell you that I have cracked the code. I'm not even close.
Justine Reichman: So when you're talking to your engineers and all the folks that you surrounded yourself with as experts, what is the biggest surprise that you learned as you were building this out?
“AI is better served as a human plus adjunct, but you can't do all the things for you with the level of excellence that you require and want.” —Karen Huh
Karen Huh: I think the biggest surprise is that, well, all these early businesses, early meaning businesses that have been around for two years but have managed to grow very large because they're AI businesses, it's easy to get myself included. Whipped around by the news and see how fast they're growing and thinking, oh, this should be so easy to build. And there's something called coding methodology, if you will, called vibe coding, in which you're basically using AI to engineer. And by doing that, you can go faster. So everyone naturally believes, well, if that's true, you don't need as many engineers. And this is why you hear so much in the news about engineers and layoffs. It should be so easy, AI will just do it for us. It's actually not that easy. And so I think the biggest surprise for me in the last six to eight months is thinking that it would be easier than it actually is. And to make a great product, you really do need experts. And I think in my opinion, and this is probably subject to debate, but my N=1 opinion is AI is better served as a human plus adjunct. Meaning, it makes my life easier, your life easier equips people like you have a junior teammate, or sometimes a little more senior than that, but it can't do all the things for you with the level of excellence that you require and want as you might think, or you might hear, and so it still takes time to build a great product and a great business.
Justine Reichman: I can imagine. And I also think about using ChatGPT or Claude myself. And I think you can ask it a question, but I go back and forth so many times because I wanted to have my voice. I wanted to be more curious. So I have to continue to tailor what I'm looking for. That's something I just learned. So learning enables me to use it more for myself, and have a better, more tailored solution. So what are some of the things that you use as a way to make it more specific for yourself, as well as for Zucca?
Karen Huh: Things I do are, I write prompts. I actually learned this from Jesse. Because my tendency is, as I was saying before, to use it like Google. I write one line, and then I don't like it, and then I write another line. And if I think a lot of people are like me, my Google search methodology is for random words in no particular order, and I hope for the best. I was doing basically the same thing. I don't think that's actually the best way to use AI. What I've learned is that it helps to have to provide a lot of context up front and ask Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini, whatever platform you use to ask questions so you get the best output. So for example, for my personal stuff, I might write, hey, I'm a middle aged mom. I've got two preteen kids, can you help me find an activity in this whatever it is I'm ripping on the fly, but give it as much context as possible to give it the best chance of a good result.
And I have to admit, when I realized that this actually yields better results, I actually found it kind of to be a pain. So what I did was I used Google Keep, just kind of like Microsoft, OneNote, and I actually pre wrote my prompts. I actually do this for Zucca too sometimes. I just copy and paste them, and stick them in there, and then I'll have to write it again. I have to write a little more context about what I'm asking, but at least it has the baseline information. And then depending what platform you use, for example, Open AI, the makers of ChatGPT, they have a little bit of memory, so they'll remember who you are. For Zucca, it's a little bit different, and we got ahead of this actually. So much of what Zucca does is figure out all that prompting under the hood so that you don't have to figure it out. Because what a pain it would be to be a CPG product developer, brand marketer, supply chain person querying AI, and have it not be anywhere close to what it is that it's supposed to be answering for you. And so what's different about Zucca is that it's purpose built for CPG. We have already effectively prompt engineered what answers are appropriate in certain situations, and put it in the mindset of what this is supposed to be, which is launching CPG products at scale.
Justine Reichman: That's so smart. Because then, it's kind of more tailored, more specifically oriented. Zucca is specifically oriented for people building CPG brands, so it makes sense that those questions would go across so many different things, and that people could always leverage that. So now that you've built this, and you're continuing to evolve, I'm sure, because it's a very fast space. You're always learning more in AI, and the CPG space is always growing. What are some of the things that CPG companies as they're building, why would they use this? What are the top three reasons? What are the top three things that it's going to solve a problem for them?
Karen Huh: It will unify all your information, and then connect the dots. Meaning, if I make a protein bar, and I think the costs are one thing for that first formula, and then I have someone change the formula, it will update that formula. But it'll also update your costs, so you're getting efficiency in terms of sharing information. I think maybe I've cheated there. There's two benefits in there, because it's also storing your information and unifying it all. It enables you to move faster, because it's both a workspace and AI assistant. So let's say I'm working on a protein bar and I want to take an ingredient out, or I want to put an ingredient in, or I need to solve for a certain cost per unit, you could use the assistant to solve for that. So basically, now you have a colleague that can help you solve for that, and then update all the information I just described. And I think the third thing is that you are able to collaborate with your team. I've mentioned before, you have a source of truth, and our platform is meant to be shared across teams. So that if I'm working on a product with you, I could tag you and say, hey, is this the right type of protein? Is this too much protein? Is it not enough protein? And work back and forth asynchronously as we're all used to doing at this point, but have it live in Zucca because I think one of the challenges that we hear time and time again is that people's information are everywhere. It's in your email, it's in your PDF, it's in your PowerPoint deck. How do I get it all in one place? And we bring that all together.
Justine Reichman: Wow. I'm looking half the time through my cellphone, the text, the email, so many things. What's the easiest way to make this? I'm always most comfortable on my phone, even more than my computer. It's easier for me, but still it's cumbersome. I feel like I'm going to drop the ball or forget something, or it's in so many different formats that I can't get it together.
Karen Huh: Yeah. I would add that Zucca is designed to add a lot more intelligence. So the way I'm describing it makes it sound a little bit like a data store. But what's more important, because who doesn't have Google Drive, or Dropbox, or OneDrive? People have data stores already, but it's the intelligence that layers on top of that data store. So I could say, here's a really common example I get in a lot of phone calls, or Zoom calls. Hey, I want to look at my portfolio and figure out how many products in my portfolio have seed oils, for example. Or how many products have food colorings that the MAHA movement is not going to bless? And pull that information out so that you're not going through each ingredient spec, each document to figure out what that is. You're letting Zucca do that homework for you.
Justine Reichman: Wow, that's really great. So when people are logging on for the first time, just so they have an idea, what is the experience like? Because you have all this stuff that's engineered to be able to support, help and drive this. So when they get there, where do they start? What's that journey like?
Karen Huh: So choose your own adventure. There are three primary pathways. But to make it simple, you can ideate new concepts. So let's say I want to come up with electrolyte powder, another newly crowded category, and I want to come up with something new, or maybe even better. I want to come up with something that's electrolyte, but I don't know if it should be a powder, or gummy, or whatever the format should be. You can give Zucca as many constraints or as little constraints as possible, and it will start generating product concepts for you based on those constraints in the sandbox. And it can also layer on your existing assortment, your brand guardrails. And this way, it's generating ideas that are most relevant to your brand. And I find that brands that are coming out of the gates don't really have necessarily challenges with ideation because they're brand new, and there's a lot of white space. But as brands get rolling, the example I always use is if you have four flavors of a beverage and you're already on shelf, but you're trying to figure out the 5th, the 6th, the 7th, that actually becomes a lot harder. So that's a great place for where our ideation tool can come into play. It also is just great for white space.
We've had customers use it as a way to start the conversation of what formats to consider where they can push the envelope in terms of adjacent categories they can pursue. And then the second pathway is building out what I call your living brief. So you don't have to start with a fresh new product. You can upload an existing product, or you can start a brand new product, and that leads you to the workspace. Where then, you start manipulating your economics, your formula, and what have you. And the third pathway is, if you're already an existing Zucca user, you could just tap into your portfolio, query your portfolio, pull out certain insights based on what you've built, ask questions like the example I had before about seed oils or food colorings. And then I think the last thing is, I should say that we are able to integrate with other people's platforms or their databases, whether it's in a spreadsheet or something else. And so let's say I have a price for sugar, and that sugar is $1 a kilogram, which might be too high, but just let's work with the example. Let's say it changes to $2 a kilogram. I can upload that, I can update that in Zucca, and then that update would flow through all the products that have sugar.
Justine Reichman: Wow, that's amazing. So from what I'm hearing, it sounds like you could be a newbie, just getting started with this idea. Not sure if it's good. I could have done hypothetically. Years ago, I came up with that idea of vitamin vodka. A vitamin water and vitamin vodka my grandma,
Karen Huh: My New Year's Eve party where I discover--
Justine Reichman: I was encouraging people to do bad things, so I could not build that business. But the example stands. I came up with this, and I want to figure out, can I make vitamin vodka? I want to make it clear so that people can make martinis with it, but also use it for watermelon martinis or whatever. And so that's one place. Now, can I come at it also? I own Equator Coffee. I don't own Equator Coffee, but I'm just saying I own Equator Coffee, and I want to put that in there. And there's tons of SKUs, and there's all these different things, and we want to better see and analyze what we have, and where our voids are, and how to fill that in. So it sounds like we got the whole spectrum here.
Karen Huh: That's exactly right. And I think what maybe younger brands don't realize, but quickly realize with success, is that when you think about an up and coming brand, they have a co manufacturer. They source ingredients. They're making stuff. Maybe they're DTC or Amazon, maybe they're even in Whole Foods. But when they become successful, their volume goes up, and that often leads to having to change co manufacturers. Up their volume. And then when you change co manufacturers, you sometimes can't use the same formula. You have to basically renovate a formula to be identical to the one you had previously. And so it doesn't take that long for you to realize, oh, I got to change this thing. It is not actually even technically innovative, but has all the same attributes without it being actually truly new to a customer. And so we really worked through that life cycle of all products, while also giving a system of record where people could go back and see what it is they did before. What did they do with the new version? Where are they going next?
Justine Reichman: Well, there's a lot there, and it seems like your target audience spans such a vast range. Really, you fill that void for so many people, and it seems like it's a tailorable solution that so many people can access regardless of whatever point they are in their business. I think that that's amazing. With AI being so new, what does that mean as you look forward to the future of Zucca? To me, I was like, I'm thinking here, I can't even imagine because I don't know what AI is going to come up next. How does that impact your thoughts on the future of Zucca?
Karen Huh: I think that goes back to my earlier comment that we're so early for all companies, not just Zucca. In the advent of AI, it feels very much that AI is so pervasive, and it is. But it's also going to change. And candidly, I don't know how it's going to change, and I don't think the vast majority of people know how it will change. But it's our job at Zucca to track what happens when I assume there's going to be a ChatGPT 6, because they seem to be following just kind of like iPhones adding a number. But it's up to us to figure out what's actually improving. Or if anthropic has changed their model, what is actually improving? And how does that serve our customers? And how does that add more value to what Zucca is providing to our customer base? But we're moving basically with a moving target or a moving goal post, whatever analogy you prefer. And for all AI companies, we have to move along with it, and then make critical decisions about whether it makes the sense to stay where we are or to adapt.
But really, our goal at the end of the day will always remain the same. To provide a product that unifies workflows that provides a way for users to intelligently tap into their products in ways they couldn't before, and to do all the things they knew need to do, such as formulate work on their unit economics, so on and so forth, but do it even better over time. So we will use the advancements of AI to improve ourselves at the same time. And I alluded to it before already. But the way we think about it is, and there are a lot of studies actually that are out there around this. We really think of Zucca as a teammate, and so we don't think about this as a system that replaces a person. We think of this as something that makes a person's job easier, smarter, better, kind of having a calculator when there wasn't a calculator, having a computer when there was no computer. It's just the same. Because ultimately, so much of our business is in food, beverage and supplements. Particularly in food and beverage, we're not surmising to replace the sensory experience. For example, these are things that are being put in people's mouths, you should probably taste it.
“The value you get out of Zucca and all the things it can do is far cheaper than what it would take to hire another person or hire an external consultant to do that work.” —Karen Huh
Justine Reichman: Doesn't taste good, we're not going to drink it, eat it. Okay, so you've onboarded lots of new clients. I'm sure lots of people that are playing with Zucca integrated into their business. Can you share maybe one or two anecdotes from how it's impacted their journey and things that it's helped them do, and the impact it's had for them?
Karen Huh: Yeah. So the one that comes to mind, we have a customer that's been along for the ride since April or so, so it's been a while. And so they've seen our product evolve quite a bit in that timeframe, and what they have been able to report back in their day to day work is a 90% reduction in time as far as fully scoping ideas that are scale up ready. And just in case your listeners aren't aware, scale up ready basically means you're ready to take that formula to a manufacturing environment and really scale. So basically, it's taking 10% of the time that it did before to get to that point, and that is a process that, depending on what product you're on, can take us such a long time. Because as I was joking, but also serious about before, these are things that we're putting in our mouths.
And so sometimes, figuring out that right, nailing the sensory profile, what it tastes like, and what the mouth feels like, and the taste, the unit economics and the formula, it's a sweet spot, it's a Venn diagram. And to be able to reduce that down to 10% of the time is a huge win, because it allows time for other things, for your team to be thinking about other things. The other anecdote I could share is that we had a beta customer using our product to formulate, and they had a very specific flavor profile they were going after, and they couldn't figure it out, frankly, and so they used our assistant to go back and forth around, how to create that formula? What ingredients to consider? They would use the suggestions, go back and forth, and then give the assistant feedback, and the assistant would build from there with even more feedback. And so they were able to do this on their own time without having to wait for someone, because so much of product development work is you're passing the ball to somebody else, and you're waiting for it to be passed back. It takes time, and this allows that iterative process to be a lot faster. And then to put real dollars against it, they were able to reduce the amount of spend they needed to invest in an external formulator, R&D person, by over 50% because they still needed that person. Again, I'm not contending to replace that person, but they are able to shrink that investment of time and dollars by using Zucca, which is far cheaper. And then bringing what homework they had done to the formulator where they engage them and bring it to the finish line.
Justine Reichman: So let's talk about the accessibility of Zucca. You said it's far cheaper. So let's talk about the cost to the user and the point of entry. Because if we have some startups here, and then we have some businesses that are more seasoned, or maybe even public, etcetera that want to use this, can you talk to me a little bit about the entry point, and how accessible that is?
Karen Huh: Yeah. Right now, Zucca is priced on a SaaS basis, a Software as a Service. So as many people are familiar, subscription basis per seat per month. Right now, we are priced at $350 per seat per month. And basically, the rationale for that pricing is that the value you get out of Zucca and all the things it can do is far cheaper than what it would take to hire another person or hire an external consultant to do that work. And the knowledge that Zucca has is very much purpose built for CPG.
Justine Reichman: Awesome. Karen, thank you so much for joining me today. I could have gone on. I had so many more questions from funding, you name it. I had so many more. So many more, so maybe we'll continue this conversation another time. But I appreciate all the insights. I'm so excited for what you've built and what you're going to continue to build. Because I think right now, more than ever, this space is so crowded with lots of new covers that this is going to be a resource that's going to be a game changer.
Karen Huh: Thank you so much for having me, this was really fun. And yes, totally happy to continue the conversation.
