S9 Ep43: Farming Forward: How Regenerative Methods Are Rewriting Agriculture with Jason Walker
“We need to think more about the ecosystem, and it’s not always the cheapest way to do stuff. I think we’re just trying to make a difference. And if we can make a living while making a difference, then that’s really important.” —Jason Walker
Episode Description:
“We need to think more about the ecosystem, and it’s not always the cheapest way to do stuff. I think we’re just trying to make a difference. And if we can make a living while making a difference, then that’s really important.” —Jason Walker
Regenerative organic farming is more than just a method—it's a revolutionary approach to healing our planet's most critical resource: soil. It offers a holistic approach that sees agriculture not as an extraction process but as a recuperative, life-giving partnership with the Earth.
Jason Walker is a visionary third-generation farmer who leads StarWalker Organic Farms, championing regenerative organic agriculture and raising heritage breed livestock in their natural environments. With a deep commitment to soil health, animal welfare, and sustainable farming practices, Jason is not just a farmer, but an educator and advocate for transforming our understanding of food production and its impact on human and environmental well-being.
Listen in as Justine and Jason decode the complex landscape of regenerative organic farming, exploring the intricate connections between soil vitality, heritage breeds, certification standards, and the profound impact of conscious agricultural practices on nutrition and environmental sustainability.
Connect with Jason:
Jason Walker is a third-generation farmer and co-founder of StarWalker Organic Farms, a pioneering regenerative organic farm with nearly 45 years of organic farming experience. As a passionate advocate for sustainable agriculture, Jason has transformed his family's farm by implementing regenerative practices that prioritize soil health, animal welfare, and ecosystem diversity. Jason is committed to educating consumers about the importance of regenerative farming and its impact on nutrition, environmental sustainability, and food production.
Episode Highlights:
01:23 The Origin: StarWalker Organic Farms
07:34 Transitioning to Regenerative Organic
10:19 The Impact of Regenerative Farming on Soil and Ecosystem
21:38 Regenerative Farming: Challenges and Opportunities
29:03 Heritage Breeds and Nutrient-Dense Meat
38:44 Future Aspirations and Community Engagement
40:04 Availability and Accessibility of Regenerative Products
Tweets:
Modern agriculture stands at a critical crossroads where our choices will determine not just what we eat but the very foundation of life and our future. Discover the critical intersections of soil regeneration, animal welfare, consumer awareness, and the radical potential of farming practices with @justine.reichman and third-generation farmer at @starwalkerfarms, Jason Walker. #podcast #entrepreneurship #socialgood #inspiration #impactmatters #NextGenChef #EssentialIngredients #Season9 #StarWalkerOrganicFarm #RegenerativeOrganicAgriculture #SustainableFarming #OrganicFood #ClimateAction #FoodSystems #CertifiedRegenerative #SoilHealth #HumaneFarming
Inspirational Quotes:
03:33 “You take care of the soil, you're going to have a healthy product that people are going to put in their bodies, and then they're going to be healthy.” —Jason Walker
05:35 “There's a lot of education that we're exploring now to better understand the impact of regenerative, both on our health and welfare, as well as the planet. And the more people understand the impact it has on them, the more we're going to get people on board to support this, to live this way, to buy this way. And the more people that are living, buying and growing in this way, the more it will expand.” –Justine Reichman
11:06 “The diversity in the ecosystem is what makes it important— everybody supports everybody. It's just a great symbiotic relationship, and it's really fun to watch.” —Jason Walker
12:13 “Soil is a living thing. If you don't feed that soil good stuff, and your soil is dead, then you're not going to grow good crops. If you don't grow good crops, you're not going to feed the animals, you're not going to feed people.” —Jason Walker
13:21 “The people that are taking care of the soil are the ones that you want to support… If the consumer is buying regenerative or organic products, the people who are farming are going to understand that there's a trend in that direction, and they're going to have to make those small changes on their farm.” —Jason Walker
14:30 “If you try to do everything at once, it's often overwhelming and can hinder you from doing anything. To make small goals is the way to go.” —Justine Reichman
21:56 “If we're trying to nourish our bodies with things that aren't nourished, it seems counterproductive.” —Justine Reichman
29:43 “What you put in your body affects how you're going to live in the future, and so you're either going to pay more in health care in the future, or you're going to pay more in food right now.” —Jason Walker
33:54 “All that marbling is a fat, unhealthy animal. What you really want your beef to look like is a pure red, solid muscle. And the reason is that it’s living outside, it's eating grass., It’s foraging around for stuff. It's got nutrient-dense muscles. When you see fat in all the inner muscular of meat, that's a sedentary animal. That's a fat animal, that's an unhealthy animal.” —Jason Walker
40:18 “We need to think more about the ecosystem, and it’s not always the cheapest way to do stuff. I think we’re just trying to make a difference. And if we can make a living while making a difference, then that’s really important.” —Jason Walker
Transcription:
Justine Reichman: Good morning. I'm your host, Justine, here on the Essential Ingredients Podcast, and I'm excited to welcome you here again. Welcome to the loyal listeners. Welcome to the new listeners and viewers. It's so great to have you be part of the community. I'd like to introduce you to the guest that we are going to have today, because I am excited to chat with him. His name is Jason Walker. He is a 3rd Generation Farmer and a Co-Founder of StarWalker Organic Farms, join us as we explore building community and transforming a business to last the test of time. So you're not going to want to miss this. Stay tuned.
Good morning, Jason. How are you this morning?
Jason Walker: I'm doing great. How are you?
Justine Reichman: Good. I'm so excited to have you here and learn all about your farm, StarWalker. If you're tuning in on videocast--
Jason Walker: I'm well represented.
Justine Reichman: You are representing. 100%, you are representing Jason, I'm so excited. I know this is a multi generational farm, and you guys started back in the 80s, and things have changed now. I would just love to hear a little bit about the backstory, and what the inspiration was behind starting the farm initially in the 80s.
Jason Walker: Yeah, it's the 3rd Generation. I'm third generation. My son will be fourth generation. And my grandparents originally purchased the farm back in the early 70s, and I think their original intention was just maybe an investment property. My grandpa was originally a dentist, and I think he did well. He was down in the Bay Area, and I think he did well, and they bought his investment. And then I think he started spending a lot of time up on the farm, and kind of really liked it. So then, eventually my parents came along, and they ended up taking over the ranch and kind of carrying on that legacy that my grandpa started. I think it was the early, maybe the late 70s. My parents were approached by a bunch of salesmen and Chemical Guys, and they were, oh, you've got to use this. The only way you're going to have a crop is you have this. They just felt like there was a better way. They'd been doing it for enough years. They're like, we're not using this stuff. Why are we being forced to use it? So that was when they jumped into the organic world, and so we've been organic for almost 45 years, I think, if I remember correctly.
Justine Reichman: That's very forward thinking and advanced. That's around 1977 ish, so late 70s. I feel like my mom was a very big adopter trying to get organics when I was growing up, but I didn't feel like it was mainstream. I don't even think we knew enough to make sure that a farm was organic.
“You take care of the soil, you're going to have a healthy product that people are going to put in their bodies, and then they're going to be healthy.” —Jason Walker
Jason Walker: Yeah. And mostly it was a smaller niche like mom and pop, or naturopathic type places would have a lot of organic stuff. But it didn't really catch mainstream until, I think you got into more of the late 80s, and the bigger retail stores started carrying organic. And so I think it's been a slow grind. But basically, the nuts and bolts behind it are just basically growing food and doing stuff like they used to 40, 50, 100 years ago. Because really, what it's about is it's just really about taking care of the soil. You take care of the soil, you take care of the animals. And if you have healthy animals and you're eating the meat, then you're going to be healthy. It's no different with vegetables, fruits or whatever. You take care of the soil, you're going to have a healthy product that people are going to put in their bodies, and then they're going to be healthy. That's all I've known my whole life. I did take a little stint away from farming. I left, and I was a general contractor for about 15 years, probably about 19, mid 30s or something like that. But I always knew I wanted to come back to the farm. It was definitely a little bit of a hidden passion for me. I loved it growing up. So even when I was away, I would always think about it. And then my parents were ready to either pass the torch on, or sell, or do something. And so we came back and took over the farm, and we've expanded and grown. We've done quite a few things in the last 15 years. Or it's been less than 12 years since we've been back?
Justine Reichman: Years ago about when you guys went regenerative, or did you guys go regenerative, or just organic?
Jason Walker: The regenerative thing has been like the past two years. So when regenerative organic came around, we were seeing and kind of talking about it. It was like more certifications. We're like, do we want to do more certifications? We've been organic forever. We've got GAP Certification, which is animal welfare. We've got like five or six differences with the real organic. We got all these things, and we're like, do we want to do this regenerative organic? And then we saw the people that were behind it, the movement, and then we started realizing what it was about. Even though we were doing these practices for the past 40 plus years, we were like, hey, having that extra surety to the customers that are buying our stuff that we're doing it right, we've been doing it right for a long time. So we decided to get the regenerative organic certification. I think it's about two years now that we've been regenerative organic certified. I think that's it's just another step in the right direction of giving people the surety that they're buying products that are, the animals are taken care of, soils taken care of, and they're going to be nutritious, dense products that people are going to love.
“There's a lot of education that we're exploring now to better understand the impact of regenerative, both on our health and welfare, as well as the planet. And the more people understand the impact it has on them, the more we're going to get people on board to support this, to live this way, to buy this way. And the more people that are living, buying and growing in this way, the more it will expand.” –Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: I think it's so important. And I think there's a lot of education that we're exploring now to better understand the impact of regenerative, both on our health and welfare, as well as the planet. And I think that the more people understand the impact it has on them, the more we're going to get people on board to support this, to live this way, to buy this way. And the more people that are living, buying and growing in this way, the more it will expand. And then hopefully, we'll see an impact on people's health, all sorts of things. So before you were running this, your parents were running this, and it sounds like if we're talking 40 years ago, was that them deciding to go organic? Or was that your grandparents?
Jason Walker: It was them. My grandpa was in a goof off mood. He was building cabins and working on cutting wood and stuff. So my parents were really the driving force behind the ranch. They took it over knowing that they were going to be operating it, and it was going to be kind of their baby. I think my parents are old hippies. They went to school. The crazy part is they both have master's degrees, and I don't think they ever intended to be on a farm. But I think they brought a lot of their experience in college, and they knew that having a healthy farm, healthy soil, and healthy animals was important. And so I think that when they found the organic movement, I think they were just full of it, we used to do all sorts of stuff. We used to make organic potatoes. We used to do organic corn. We went out when I was a kid and early adolescence, we went out and shut corn at 6:00 in the morning. And before I'd go to school, my dad would run around to all the local stores and drop off big totes of sweet corn. I mean, we did herbs and spices, we've done all sorts of stuff. My dad was big on intensive farming and not expansive farming.
Justine Reichman: So what values or ethos did they have that you really feel you brought through to today? Obviously, things change. You're changing with the times, and it sounds like regenerative agriculture is important to you, and I'd love to dig into why that's important to you. I think we touched on it about health, wellness and the planet. But really, I'd love to hear a little bit more about the impact you hope it has.
Jason Walker: Yeah, yeah. Going back to my parents, they were hard workers. My mom, I think she was like, I remember with my brother because my brother's 10 years younger than me. I mean, she'd be out there on the tractor raking hay, eight months pregnant. People would always just be like, they go by and double take and no cab tractor. She's just out there, freezing cold mornings. Both of them were always working. And they just loved what they did, and they thought it was important. And I think those values really stuck with me. Even now, my parents are basically retired. They go camping and do all the fun stuff, which is what I want them to do. I want them to enjoy it. They worked a lot of, a lot of hard years. I'm still so young and vibrant, so I definitely want to be the workhorse now. But I think that work ethic is huge. I mean, that's what I love to do. Quite honestly, if I'm outside doing anything is a good day for me. Sometimes when it's bitter cold, it's not super fun, but I still enjoy it. The animals are fun and so and I like the whole process. We talked about the regenerative aspect of it. I like seeing the soil. I like seeing all the bugs, all the birds, all the stuff that's in the soil that most people don't realize. And chemical agriculture, or conventional agriculture, whatever you want to call it, all that stuff dies.
I mean, literally, just gets nuked year in and year out. So all those bugs, you don't get to see them. I go out in some of my fields, and it's almost like a little scary. You're like, wow, why is there so many bugs and stuff going on here? But the crops are growing, the crops healthy. I think that the diversity in the ecosystem is what makes it important, and everybody supports everybody. And sometimes, there's weeds in a field that have the nutrients that help support the crop that I want to grow. It's just a great symbiotic relationship, and it's really fun to watch.
“The diversity in the ecosystem is what makes it important— everybody supports everybody. It's just a great symbiotic relationship, and it's really fun to watch.” —Jason Walker
Justine Reichman: If you were talking to me, and I'm a listener tuning in today, what could you tell me that would resonate with me? Not as a farmer, but as an individual that really wants to understand why this is a good thing, and why I want to buy regenerative from a regenerative farm.
Jason Walker: Soil is a living thing. There's so much going on in the soil. And if you don't feed that soil, no different than us, we've gotta feed our bodies. But if you don't feed that soil good stuff, and if you're taking care of that whole ecosystem, all the little bugs and worms and all that stuff that's in the soil, that all is what makes healthy plants. And if you don't have that going on in the soil, if your soil is dead, I say nuked. I'm not trying to give conventional agriculture a hard time, but I'm also just kind of trying to say that if you're not nourishing that soil, then you're not going to grow good crops. If you don't grow good crops, you're not going to feed the animals. You're not going to feed people. What it goes back to is just taking care of the essential thing in our soil, and we're also losing farm ground like crazy, cities and everything.
So I think when people think they go to the store, they look at the labels, or they're thinking about what they're purchasing, things they're going to do, they have to understand that the people that are taking care of the soil are the ones that you want to support. Because if we don't, we're not going to have the soil, we're not going to have the nutrient density. We're not going to have healthy animals. And I know it seems daunting because there's so much production in the US, and we produce a lot of food and animals. I can't expect everybody tomorrow to turn, but what I can do is put the message out there. Every small step that somebody can do, and it starts at the consumer. If the consumer is buying regenerative or organic products, the people who are making or farming, they're going to see that. They're going to understand that there's a trend in that direction, and they're going to have to make those small changes on their farm, whether it's maybe using less chemicals or using cover crops. Or doing something to help take care of the soil. That's where the money is. They're going to follow it. So the more people, consumers we can think that are thinking in that direction, the more farmers are going to follow suit. It might take 10, 20, 30, 40 years, but we got to start somewhere.
“The people that are taking care of the soil are the ones that you want to support… If the consumer is buying regenerative or organic products, the people who are farming are going to understand that there's a trend in that direction, and they're going to have to make those small changes on their farm.” —Jason Walker
Justine Reichman: I totally agree, and I believe in baby steps. I think that that's the best way to get there. And I think if you try to do everything at once, it's often overwhelming, and can actually hinder you from doing anything. I think making small goals is the way to go, in my opinion. So for those folks that might want to become regenerative, talk to me about the process and any additional work, or if there isn't more work. What does it look like so that we can inspire others to go down this process?
Jason Walker: So the key is where somebody's starting doesn't matter. You could be starting with a one acre homestead in your backyard. There might be somebody who's like, I've got this 1000 acres of range ground. I just don't know what to do with it. At every step of the way, there's a way to start. And I think the biggest thing is understanding what the values are, either the regenerative or the organic system. Understanding that and figuring out, okay, well, what are you going to be growing on that ground? And then I think it's understanding the principles of what do you want to grow? If you're taking care of the soil, what does that require? What do you need? Do you need to put some compost or some chicken manure into the soil? Do you need to get animals out there and start intensive grazing the animals to start building the soil profile and get more grasses, native grasses to grow? Each area of that is a little bit different. We do pretty much all those across our farm, down to the smallest little plot, all the way up to thousands of acres of range ground. We have to be thinking about that the whole way, and what animal is best to suit that? And what crop is maybe best to suit that, that little acreage you have?
Justine Reichman: I appreciate those tips for folks, because I think it's important to give people a place to start and go from there. So I'm also thinking about those folks that maybe they don't have a huge farm, but maybe they've got an edible garden? What would you say to that listener that says, okay, I have an edible garden. Clearly, I don't have a farm, but I want to make it regenerative.
Jason Walker: Again, we go back to the soil. What does it take? Maybe you buy some earthworms in your garden and put them in there. Maybe you find out where there's some really good organic compost. You can start making compost teas to spray on your crops. I know we're talking about a smaller garden. But whether you're growing a few tomatoes, carrots and random stuff for yourself, or or you're growing corn, it all really just comes down to the soil. How can you feed that soil? How can you take care of it? Sometimes, when you're talking about bugs too, maybe you're like, oh, every year I grow tomatoes and this worm always eats them. Do a little research and find out, maybe that worm has an enemy. I shouldn't say enemy, but a competing worm that helps offset that. How do you grow another plant that maybe has that thing? So diversity is huge. We see that in farming across the board, mono crops don't work. You have to have some diversity in your soil. You have to have multiple different things. Well, it's no different with a garden. You want to have multiple different plants, because each one of those feeds the soil differently. Each one of those puts nutrients into the soil that the other plant can use. So the more diversity, the better. Sometimes, weeds aren't all that bad. I know they look ugly and you can't use them. But sometimes, there's weeds, they are taking something out of the sun, the air, the soil, and they're putting it back into the soil, and it'll help feed the other plants. So I think there's a lot that people can learn when it comes to taking care of the soil, and what it requires to have healthy, nutritious plants to feed you.
Justine Reichman: Awesome. So you mentioned compost tea, and that sort of excited me. I'm like, okay, well, what's compost tea? So I can make it and then spray it in my garden.
Jason Walker: Compost tea is really easy. And sometimes, you can even find them online. You can find they're like little tea bags, and you put them in water, and you soak them. And ideally, you circulate that water because the air circulating the water helps bring out what's in that compost tea bag. And you can add anything you want. Sometimes, there's just mineral deficiencies in the soil, or maybe mineral deficiencies in where you live, the nature of that soil, and you can add those into compost tea, and then you just spray it onto your plants and soil. And all that absorbs back in there. It feeds the Micro Zoba in the soil. It feeds the plant stems and leaves, and then you can have a more nutritious, better, healthier plant.
Justine Reichman: I'm excited about that. I'm going to look up some compost teas. Of course, you have one that you recommend?
Jason Walker: I don't have one I recommend. We do it on a bigger scale. What we're doing is we're actually doing soil tests. And so we test the soil, and we find out where we're having deficiencies, and then we bake that into our compost teas. So we say, okay, hey, we need some more magnesium in the soil. So then, we can get a compost tea that's more directed towards magnesium, and then we just spray it out there.
“If we're trying to nourish our bodies with things that aren't nourished, it seems counterproductive.” —Justine Reichman
Justine Reichman: That is super interesting. So all the food that we get from you, you're really caring for that soil so we get all the nutrients in everything that we're eating. I don't know that people know this. Or maybe they do, but I'm really excited to be able to have you share this information because I think that you've made it really tangible and easy to understand, and really gives us a sense of why it's so important. After all, if we're trying to nourish our bodies with things that aren't nourished, it seems counterproductive. So I want to talk a little bit about inflation and product availability, and even thinking back to COVID and what those supply chains were like when everything was going crazy and there was a concerted movement to support local farmers, ranchers and productions to build local community, and make sure the consumer dollars were being invested locally. Can you talk a little bit about that? What was it like for you?
Jason Walker: COVID was a pretty crazy moment because we were selling a lot of meat to people as quarters, halves and stuff like that. But then when COVID hit, my wife, she's by trade. She's been a dance teacher, puts on big productions and stuff like that. Well, she had to close her studio down so she came on board and she took care of the online. She basically built our website, did our marketing and all that. So our sales during COVID boosted because everybody was like, you said they were trying to find, how do I support my local farmer? How do I get stuff that's a better proximity? You can't buy what you need at the store, maybe. So our direct to consumer took off, and that was kind of the catalyst for us growing a lot, and doing a lot of things on our farm. And we still haven't recovered from that. Not us personally, but the farming world is not recovered from COVID. There's still a cattle shortage in the US. There's still chicken bird issues. Obviously, a lot of people hear about that in the media. There's a lot of things that really haven't recovered from the kind of devastation we saw in COVID. Animals were getting killed because they couldn't go to processing plants.
The processing plants were closed down so they had to eliminate animals. So there's been a shortage for a while, which has made the prices increase. And then we've got inflation to add in there too. It's an interesting time in farming and agriculture. I think people are more aware of understanding. They want to know where their food comes from. They kind of want to have a little bit of an idea of how it's raised, or how it's grown. I think the movement is steadily rising in understanding. Maybe people just want to have local food and local produce. We do a lot of Farmers Market's. We see a lot of influx of new customers at the Farmers Market's because people just kind of want to go there and see who's locally producing the stuff that I buy. I'm not supporting the big retail stores and getting products that are sometimes coming from overseas. It's an interesting side note. So we are the only regenerative organic beef and pork in the US. We're actually the only regenerative organic pork in the whole world, as far as the ROC label. But there is regenerative organic beef, but it all comes from Australia. And the crazy part about that is, I think it's great that they are doing regenerative organic in Australia, and I love it. But they can actually produce the beef and ship it. Long ways to bring it to the US, ship it across the ocean and get it here, and sell it into the market for ridiculously cheaper than we can't even produce it.
Justine Reichman: Also interesting because you think about cost, right? You think about accessibility. There's local, there's organic, there's regenerative, and then you can get all three of those things. But the point is, if you have to make a choice because you don't have the resources, what's the best choice for us, for our health and the planet? There's so many things to consider. What do you give up? There's fossil fuel and all these things that we come into play, and it's a really hard decision to decide, and I think it's a very personal one because there's no right answer, yeah. You're not gonna shame somebody and be like, okay, well, you can't afford it so you don't deserve it. Is it better to at least have it? What about grass fed and grass finished? What role does that play in this? What are your customers looking for from you?
“What you put in your body affects how you're going to live in the future, and so you're either going to pay more in health care in the future, or you're going to pay more in food right now.” —Jason Walker
Jason Walker: What the big thing we found with our customers is they're really looking for that certification. And the reason they're looking for that certification is because they know that we have a third party that literally comes out to the farm and inspects everything we do. We do soil testing every year. We do these things that get verified by a third party to assure people that when they're buying that product. That it's not just somebody saying, hey, it was grass fed. Most cattle are grass fed at some point in their life. But then most of them end up in a feed lot, and then they're fed grain, corn and soy, and all this sort of stuff. So just seeing a label that says grass fed isn't enough. You have to be able to understand like, okay, what does that mean? What is the next step? How is that animal being treated? And that's why we get the certifications is because we want people to understand that we are being verified, that what we're doing is right. What we're doing is supporting healthy animals and crops. I don't blame people for looking at how much stuff costs. But what I try to tell people is, try to see what you can afford. Maybe it's just your protein. Maybe you're like, hey, you know what? I think the most important thing is I just really want to have good protein, so I'm going to spend a little bit more on protein.
Maybe I'm going to buy the conventional carrots and apples, or vice versa. Maybe it's like, hey, I'm going to spend money on my product. That's where my money goes. But on meat, I'm going to hope that this label that says grass fed is really a good farmer. We'll hope for the best. We'll trust the store on whatever meats are on the meat counter. But I think if at least somebody can start supplementing their diet with some things that not only helps the people who are doing it right, but also maybe isn't more nutrient dense food that's going to help keep them healthy, maybe eventually, you can get to a point where you can put your whole, because I think this is just a personal thing for me. But I think what you put in your body affects how you're going to live in the future, and so you're either going to pay more in health care in the future, or you're going to pay more in food right now. So I think it depends on what somebody's willing to make the trade off with. And I think it's important to make sure that you're putting good stuff in your body to have a long, healthy, prosperous life.
Justine Reichman: Now, I get it. I do. It's expensive to do. But I also imagine that there's a role. Education plays a really big role in acquiring new customers, and also for your existing customers. Talk to me a little bit about that, because I think it's really interesting, and I think our listeners would benefit from a little bit of that.
Jason Walker: Yeah. I love talking about education on farming, because here's one statistic that I like to tell people all the time. A lot of people are scared of eating pork, and I understand why. So pretty much, 99% of pork raised in the US and probably throughout the world is all indoors. So those animals never see the outside. They never play in the dirt. They never root around. They never hang out a wallow. Their whole life cycle is spent indoors, in a heated environment with mostly GMO feeds that are put through their system. They never breathe fresh air. Essentially, they're transported right to the harvest plant. And so understanding that, what we do is we raise pigs outdoors. They're on dirt. Their whole life cycle from birth all the way till their one bad day is outside, and that's where pigs are supposed to be. They're fun to watch. They love rooting in the soil. They get excited when it snows. They're out there frolicking in the snow. And all age groups from the older moms all the way to the brand new babies. I mean, they love just being outside. When you have a healthy, happy pig that's getting fed right and out in its environment, you've got to think that maybe that's going to be a better product that's going to go into your body. Maybe that's going to be more healthy, and maybe that's going to have the right nutrients. Because sometimes, they root around the soil until they chew on those rocks that give them the nutrients that they want. They understand what their body needs, and they'll go find it.
And then that's the same with cattle. You got to understand that. I don't know, 60 to 70% of the cattle that's in the US are all feedlots. They're spending all their life getting fed a mixed ration of mainly grains. Cattle are meant to eat their ruminant animal. They're meant to eat grass. And it's amazing because these animals can take something that, as humans, we can't consume. We don't eat grass. Our stomachs aren't made for that. They can take that grass, and they can produce it through their body and make a nutrient dense meat that we can consume and that feeds our body. And that's what cows are supposed to be eating. They're supposed to be eating grass. They're supposed to be out frolicking on the hillsides and eating this amazing grass that grows up out of the ground on the hillsides naturally, and they're living their best life. They're eating grass and nourishing the soil. When they poop on the soil, that nourishes the soil, and nourishes the microbes in the soil. So that system is a natural system that's been going on for millions of years, obviously, that we've gone away from.
Now, we're putting everything in confinement, and we're feeding them stuff that they're not supposed to be eating. And so I think the education aspect of it is super important to me. Another tangent with cattle is a lot of people look at it like, oh, look at all the marbling in this meat. That's just a fat, unhealthy animal. All that marbling is a fat, unhealthy animal. What you really want your beef to look like is like, if I use this as a comparison, but a lot of people know what a buffalo, deep, dark, rich buffalo meat would look like. Or maybe elk. It's just pure red, solid muscle. You hardly see any muscular fat there. And the reason is that thing's living outside. It's eating grass. It's eating, foraging around for stuff. It's got nutrient dense muscles. Well, when you see a really fat in all the inner muscles of meat, that's a sedentary animal. That's a fat animal, that's an unhealthy animal.
“All that marbling is a fat, unhealthy animal. What you really want your beef to look like is a pure red, solid muscle. And the reason is that it’s living outside, it's eating grass., It’s foraging around for stuff. It's got nutrient-dense muscles. When you see fat in all the inner muscular of meat, that's a sedentary animal. That's a fat animal, that's an unhealthy animal.” —Jason Walker
Justine Reichman: You'll hear people behind the counter say, oh, with the fat, it has more flavor, or things like that. So what's the difference in taste?
Jason Walker: Oh, it's definitely different. I tell people this all the time too. If you want that fatty flavor, it's going to be a different taste. When you taste our meat, our meat is going to be definitely more like, I say, an elk or a bison. It's nutrient dense meat, so you have to cook it a little bit differently. We put tallow in there with our meat. And sometimes, even lard. We get tons of pig fat, and we make lard, and we throw that in there. We add flavor in that way. To add flavor into your meat is really easy. Butter is amazing, an amazing fat. You can throw that in there. When you cook your meat and add that flavor, you don't need to add that flavor by having an unhealthy animal.
Justine Reichman: I totally get that, and I'm so grateful that you shared this. Because first of all, I feel like I just got an education in understanding what to look for, how to buy things, how to make the impact it's having on the animal and on us. And bringing it all together so that I can make a better choice. And that's really what we really aim to do here on the podcast, both for innovators, as well as people buying their own food. So there's a term that I think I've seen that heritage pork and beef rather, and I know that you guys that that's something that you guys work on. Now, I want to know the conversation we're just having, and heritage beef. Where does it fall in?
Jason Walker: Yeah. So I think what that is, is just taking we've got these breeds of animals that have been around forever. They just know how to survive. They know how to obviously reproduce. That's where the heritage breeds come into play. These breeds, they've been doing it right forever. A lot of the commercial breeds have been cross genetics, and what they're doing is they're trying to breed out maybe some of the negative things that a heritage breed would have. Maybe the litter size isn't as big on the pigs, or maybe they're just not adapted as well being indoors. So a lot of these traits that these animals have always had have been bred out to them to make this commercial indoor feed lot type animal. And so what we try to do is we try to promote that these heritage breeds are good, because these are the hardy breeds. They do well outdoors and in their natural environment. They don't have issues with the sun. They don't have issues with, I don't know, just even diseases. They're just more hardy, same with the cattle side. You can see behind me, this is a Scottish Highland skull. We raise Scottish Highland cattle. They're the most beautiful, just friendly, fun cattle. There's some downsides to them. They don't grow as fast as, let's say, Angus or Herefords, or some of those other breeds. But by golly, they're beautiful to look at. They're great mothers. The meat is amazing. It's probably some of the best, most nutrient dense meat you can ever get, maybe alongside like, I say a bison or elk. We try to really highlight those animals that have been around forever. They're adapted these environments, and they've really got it figured out. We don't want animals that die because it's cold outside, or can't be out in the sun because their skin burns. There's just certain things that are important in taking care of--
Justine Reichman: As you're continuing on your journey here as the third generation, and then your son now to be the fourth generation, what do you hope to see in terms of your farm and any upcoming changes, or ways to continue on the path that you're on? What's going to be most important for you?
Jason Walker: I think the important thing is really just continuing the education. We really want to be able to bring more people to the farm and have them experience it. We can talk about it on social media, and we can talk about it on podcasts. And I think that's great. We're going to get better at that. But we just love having people. There's nothing more amazing than somebody coming to the farm and just having their draw drop, and watching the piglets out in the field running around, or looking at the cattle out on a big pasture, and just getting an understanding of what it is we're trying to do. Even walking out in the fields and seeing that bug life that I was talking about earlier. And just seeing the birds, deer and all these animals that are enjoying the natural aspect of this ground. So I think what I really want for the future is to continue that tradition of just taking care of the soil, taking care of the animals, and bringing as much diversity as we can into the landscape. And really trying to help build the awareness out there in the community of what we do, and why we think it's a good thing. And how we can do more and more of it. I have high aspirations. Unlike my dad who is more the intensive look, I'm looking at how many acres can I get converted to regenerative organic. How many acres can I really support a good diverse ecosystem? Put more cattle out on ground that people thought was, oh, you'd never be able to raise an animal out there. It's like, well, maybe you can. Maybe it just needs to be done, right? And maybe you need to think more about the ecosystem. And it's not always the cheapest way to do stuff. I'm not here saying that we're making millions of dollars trying to do this. I think we're just making a difference. And if we can make a living while we make a difference, then that's really important.
“We need to think more about the ecosystem, and it’s not always the cheapest way to do stuff. I think we’re just trying to make a difference. And if we can make a living while making a difference, then that’s really important.” —Jason Walker
Justine Reichman: I love that. That's so great. So for those folks tuning in today, whether by video or by podcast, where could they go to find your meat?
Jason Walker: Yeah. Our website is starwalkerorganicfarms.com, and you can buy meat from the website. It gets delivered. We deliver all across the US, and we also are in a lot of retail locations. So mainly on the west coast, but we were gradually expanding our reach, and we're getting into other retail locations. We're also on Amazon, so people can find our jerkies on Amazon. And eventually, probably more of our meat products. We also are on all the social media, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok. And we have a YouTube channel, I think it's called Beyond The Gate.
Justine Reichman: Jason, thank you so much for joining me today. This was such a great conversation. I learned so much. I hope it inspired many others.
Jason Walker: Thank you, Justine. It was fun, and I enjoyed talking about all this stuff all the time.
Justine Reichman: I want to thank our community who tunes in each week for our episodes with our featured Founders, researchers and innovators, and for those new folks that are here today, don't forget, whether you listen to us on your podcast or on the videocast, I want to make sure that you have all channels to reach out our podcast to follow up for new episodes and see what's coming in the pipeline. You can follow us at essential.ingredients on Instagram. And if you're listening to the podcast, don't forget to like and share. It's important to share with friends. The greatest gift you can give them is to share information and education so they too can make more important choices. Thanks so much.
